with fangs and heart bared

[Thirteen]

Toothless would probably drift to the edges, but wouldn't head near the forest or the mountains alone. So I'll start it in the train station, since that's pretty far out from town but not quite in the forest. I'll get it done tonight, then pm you a link!

(edit: Also have another lesbian character now, that is a wolf looking to join Scarlet Forest, so have at her! I have a joining post up for her in the pack territory)

[CROW. █]

oh man. so much drama to be had xD i'll be replying to your post soon <3

[vvVENOM]

Okay soooo... I just realized there are a ton of lesbian canines. And guess what? No female wolf is, apparently, receptive of a male. They're all lesbians.

Okay. This is an issue. So, like, real packs are based on the alpha pair and their pups. Even if there are outsiders, the alpha pair is there to pass on their line. Breeding is literally the most important part of the wolf pack.

So... How's this unorthodox pack going to work? If the females refuse to mate with Zorn (or any other male) then it not only will cause issues for the pack but it also goes directly against how real life packs work. Like, would they (including Zealot, Vivian, etc) set aside their sexual preferences for the good of the pack?

Like, I feel like at this point it's crucial that this is figured out. Because if none of the lesbian wolves will mate, then the pack will suffer. And Zorn would be forced to challenge (overthrow?) Zealot as Alpha in order to keep the pack stable.

EDIT: I'm just putting this here to let you guys know that I'm mainly speaking from a characterization standpoint. Zorn, who is a traditional, male, heterosexual wolf, would take these issues.

[zombie]

Hmmm....well you do have a point....We do need some females willing to breed with males to sort of balance out the pack....But if Zorn were to try to overthrow Zealot Vivian would probably get her little butt killed trying to protect her :/

[vvVENOM]

Idk and this isn't an attack on Crow (at all omg) but the fact that the Alpha is a lesbian essentially guarantees an unstable pack, one that has no assurance for the future. If I'm thinking right, then the pups of any subordinate members always come second to the pups of the Alpha pair... But if there can be no breeding Alpha pair, then it will immediately cause instinctual aggression. Wolves in rl would consider any sexually deviating dog as totally unfit for Alpha.

Like I said, this isn't in any way an attack on the lesbian nature of our great Alpha (XD) but I'm trying to be as realistic as possible and analyze how this pack would work in the real world.

[CROW. █]

i'm gonna go ahead and say that i'm offended. then again, i tend to take things quite personally, so don't be offended at my offense xD

nao, that aside, i has more to say.

first of all, how are two lesbian wolves and one undecided a ton?

second, though this pack is meant to be realistic, you can't expect it to be exactly like real life. our characters have their own personalities that will change how the pack works. and they can talk for jeebus's sake xD

third, i completely understand where you're coming from, vvvenom. however, i have already anticipated this (or at least Zealot not being willing to mate, which is problem enough because she is the alpha), and have put up in the pack rules--called the code of conduct if you were to go to the actual post--that any couple within the pack may mate and produce offspring. there are really only two reasons that Zealot would deny a couple the right to mate; one of the couple being a hybrid (which she might even overlook if the member is mostly wolf and nothing but awesome), or she notices that a male is just spreading himself around.

nao, with all that said, i has one more thing to say.

the pack can be stable with a lesbian female in charge. she allows any couple to mate, in spite of traditional wolf ways, to make up for her sexuality. if that's the case, i don't see how there could possibly be an issue aside from Zorn (the character, not you personally, vvvenom =P) feeling spited because no one wants his sexeh bodeh.

if all of that isn't valid to you (which i know you, vvvenom, and you do consider things quite well, which i admire about you) then consider this:

research shows (i can cite this is you would like) that packs in the wild are actually made up of an alpha pair, the breeding pair, and their offspring. not a conglomeration of random non-related wolves, though non-relatives have been known to be in packs. if i were to conduct the pack truly according to real life and without any element of roleplay then Zealot would have a male mate and the pack would only be them and their children.

:O

i really appreciate you voicing your concerns, vvvenom ^-^ it helps me know what's going on with members and let me know of possible issues with things.

thoughts on what i've said? :3

#nosmileys

[vvVENOM]

Thanks for the response =]

And I know, what I said probably sounded halfway like an attack on lesbians, but it really isn't. I was mostly just referring to the fact that a lot of the females (all?) who will eventually interact with Zealot, inside and outside the pack, are lesbians.

I'm mostly just stating, since the Alpha pair is usually considered the prime breeding pair. So any subordinate pups would be considered that: subordinate.

I guess I'm just concerned that there will be an equal amount of males and females in the pack, but all of the females will end up being lesbians vying for Zealot's attention. And then even some of the missions would be impossible because, well, no pups would be born.

Anyways, I really do appreciate your responding in spite of being offended. It really wasn't my intention.

With all that being said, could there be a potential argument between Zorn and the Alpha? He's a much more traditional wolf (having been considered a loner in almost every single one of the packs he's reached out to) and has sired many pups, so not having an "Alpha pair" in that sense would be very odd to him and could potentially cause him to question Zealot's leading abilities.

Maybe a challenge in the future? (Note, this wouldn't happen anytime soon. Though I suppose it would still be feasible, fitting with Zorn's character, even if he was given permission by Zealot to breed with a heterosexual female.)

Does this make sense? I feel like I'm all over the place.

And really, just my concerns were mainly voiced from a character standpoint. Like what Zorn would do, not a criticism of the workings of the pack. Well, that was my initial intent.

[CROW. █]

i think an argument of sorts would be absolutely splendid >:3 -rubs hands together and cackles-

i definitely see it in Zorn's character to bring it up to Zealot as a huge issue. and i can definitely see Zealot trying to explain it and them slapping each other with paws (okay, that won't happen, but you get the point :P) a challenge might even be fun if things keep going this way and there are no females interested in males.

like i said in the cbox, i knew you weren't trying to rag on the pack, just trying to voice concerns ^-^ and again i say, i really appreciate it.

EDiT. oh, and i forgot to add that Zealot will eventually end up falling for and claiming Vivian's middle toe on her left paw. I MEAN VIVIAN HERSELF. so any other lesbian wolves in the pack would get no attention from her =P

[Thirteen]

Bear in mind that if the pack starts to lessen in numbers, Zealot could quite easily demand that any of the other females in the pack must breed to keep up number, no matter what their sex. I doubt she would do, but she could do. And also, the pack's numbers will grow. It's mere coincidence that the three current females are lesbians and the only way that Jana will end up seeking Zealot's affections is through friendly or even motherly interactions, not those of a partner or lover. And Zorn doesn't know of any of the female's sexualities, does he, so how can her be against Zealot's if he has no idea of it?

And btw Crow, would that be alright with you, if Jana looked up to Zealot like a sister or mother, in a sense, and merely wished to do well for her as a pack member and prove her worth?

[CROW. █]

of course :3 i hadn't intended for Zealot to really become one that is to be looked up to or admired, but the description you guys have given her IC is really making her out to be xD

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